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Review Comments: Mass Floor Insulation CZ 5 thru 8

Document Title

BSR/ASHRAE/IESNA Addendum bb to ANSI/ASHRAE/IESNA Standard 90.1-2007, Energy Standard for Buildings Except Low-Rise Residential Buildings (First Public Review Draft)  

Title

Mass Floor Insulation CZ 5 thru 8 

Comment Number

006 

Comment Type

Substantive 

Commenter Number

0013 

Component Identifier

5.5-5 thru 5.5-8 

Component Type

Table 

Date Submitted

5/2/2009 5:57 PM 

Supportive

No 

Comment Text

The mass floor insulation should not exceed the current requirements in 90.1-2007 for CZ 5-8, except CZ 5 nonres can be increased to R-12.5ci and CZ 7 nonres can be increased to R-15ci.

Substantiating Statements_0

 

Responses

Responses 

Comment Approval Date

 

Comment Status

Replied To - Unresolved 

Affiliation

CTLGroup for the Masonry Alliance for Codes and Standards 

Last Action

 

Last Action Request Further Contact

 

Last Action Type

New Comment 

Response Status

 

Review Period

 

Start Date

 

End Date

 

AuthorSave

mvangeem@ctlgroup.com 

ModifiedBySave

mvangeem@ctlgroup.com 

Assigned Responder/SC/WG

 

Committee Response

 

Reply Status

 

Commenter Reply

Unresolved 

Late Comment

 

ANSI Comment

 

Committee Title

SSPC090.1 

Draft Comment

 

Committee Tag

 

Response Sent

 

Substantiating Statements

Mass Floor Insulation:

The mass floor insulation should not exceed the current requirements in 90.1-2007 for CZ 5-8, except CZ 5 nonres can be increased to R-12.5ci and CZ 7 nonres can be increased to R-15ci. These are at least as great as NBI Core Performance (R-10ci in CZ 5-6 and R-15ci in CZ 7-8); AEDG small office (R-10.4ci in CZ 5-6 and R-12.5ci in CZ 7, and R-16.7ci in CZ 8); and AEDG retail (R-12.5ci in CZ 5-6 and R-14.6ci in CZ 7-8).

The insulation for mass floors was increased without considering how mass floors are actually constructed and insulated. The current method of determining cost effectiveness within 90.1 is outdated and does not consider interactions between energy measures. Even so, the Jan. 5 version optimization spreadsheet had the correct measures for insulating mass floors. During the January meeting, additional measures were hastily added without full envelope subcommittee discussion and without consulting architects and designers who actually insulate mass floors. See the attachment for an illustration of how a moderate amount of insulation can actually improve performance by improving compliance.

In addition, the mass floor equations from Appendix C, Table 6.10.2, do not reflect the performance of mass floors. These are outdated equations that are probably based on walls. Note that the cooling coefficients for mass floors are higher than those for frame walls, which does not make sense because the floors do not see solar effects and will have the benefit of mass. 

 

 

 

 

 

Attachments
Attachment to VanGeem floor ins comment addendum bb.pdf    
Content Type: Review Comment
Created at 5/2/2009 5:57 PM  by martha.vangeem@gmail.com 
Last modified at 6/19/2011 12:15 AM  by oldtownit